clifford schorer winslow homer

Did you ever imagine focusing your entire life on thison collectingin every aspect? JUDITH RICHARDS: What kind of institution were you in? No, no. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no. It was ridiculous. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Ruth Payntar, P-A-Y-N-T-A-R. And on my father's side, both parents were living. So, yes, something like that that comesan opportunity like that would derail any project for a period, but then we'd come back to our projects, you know. And the difference is, of course, in those days they could sustain an enormous work house with a framing shop and a carriage shop that moved pictures around and, you know, all sorts of services. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That started 14 years ago, or 10, 12 years ago. JUDITH RICHARDS: for the field. In her later years, Olive was described by one of her grandsons as being "a formidable looking woman of whom I was somewhat frightened".[3]. JUDITH RICHARDS: And is there official paperwork that goes along with that? So it is veryyes, you know, you have to put the, you know, the benchmarks of pricing in their histories, but now that I'm in the trade, which is a very different perspective, I have to take those shackles off a bit because I think like an old man, like every old man. I thought for sure this is someyes, this is some Renaissance, you know, late Renaissance thing, or even early Baroque thing, that, you know, is amazing. He told mehe shared that with me when I was 26, which I had not known. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, it's very arbitrary, and I think maybe they were going to open it later, and maybe they weren't. In other words, they were things that wouldn't have been brought to me, and certainly wouldn't have been brought to me at the wholesale level, so to speak, and I couldn't have bought them by myself because of the dealer profit involved. And when I came back to them to ask about it and, you know, pursue it, they said, "Oh, the National Gallery of Washington just bought it," so it was gone. CLIFFORD SCHORER: in the fine art world, it wasn't there. I think I was a substitute hitter that day, sobecause I think they had somebody else lined up who couldn't make it. So, I mean, he's at a level way above mine in philanthropy, and very chauvinistic about his city of Antwerp, which is wonderful, because, you know, Antwerp has had, you know, off and on, hard centuries and good centuries. CLIFFORD SCHORER: We will have a viewing space in New York, but that's all. Winslow Homer Washington,DC20001, 300 Park Avenue SouthSuite 300 Every time they issue a word I take it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is there a certainand that's a kind of a new model of art storage, with viewing facilities. You know, world history is told in warfare and plagues and movements of civilization, and the art tells that story, but it tells it in the abstract. I mean, obviously, this isthis is one approach to art history, where you would take into account [01:00:01]. [00:22:01], CLIFFORD SCHORER: I mean, that'syou know, as a six-year-old or something, I remember that. And I could actually get reasonably good examples. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, absolutely. I probably should, but, you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: coming from, you know, New York and the Vineyard, and you know, sort of an active life. I don't even know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And Worcester was once a city of, you know, nine millionaires, and those millionaires supported the museum. [Affirmative.] You know, they had the large office. We had 15 layers of varnish and retouches to take off, and underneath we had a masterpiece. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, I mean, I would say that all of those things would be exciting and fun to do, but unfortunately, I don't have the ability to do them all. They just simply said, you know, "No mas." JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. I spoke to others who came to buy for their trade. And not being so much in business? WebClifford Schorer says the painting was used as security for a loan and that he is now entitled to it, the Blake family having failed to make a claim in a US court. So I wasn't at home there, you know, as a person. [Laughs.]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. 0. There are a number of hats I had to take off. So we had a five-yearwe had our five-year sort of anniversary. You know, along with Ai Weiwei as the eyeballs or something, you know. So I dropped. JUDITH RICHARDS: You mean furnishings and the hotels? They have, you knowone of the greatest mosaics in America is hidden behind a coat check. And then I would see that they would bid up to a record price, and then the next week you'd see a very similar one. So all of the art that he did have was gone. And, you know, the best Procaccini, when I was looking back in 2000, was 5 to 6 million. I'll go back to college, if they want me. I think we might have one extra letter in there, but that's okay. Their collection was just chock-a-block with things that had nothing to do with museum collections. When you collect, does it play any role in what you're thinking about what? And the problem was my upbringing hadn't prepared me to be a child. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I had a little bit of disposable income. I saw people. It was a good job. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, to me, that was that was very exciting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, absolutely. He also practised printmaking. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Self-taught in COBOL and a few other computer languages. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So that was fine. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The family, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And he's a very entertaining historian. But I bought it for the frame. Do you get, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Don't ever give me that entre. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. You know, finding things that people just miss. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. So, yes, I mean, I'm very, very grateful that I did all of those things. Then eventually, a drawing surfaced. [00:52:00]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, they close rooms. So that's a hugeI mean, fiscally, they were on a path to 10 years and the money would be gone, back in the day, because you know, they were spending eight to nine percent plus capital, you know, plus cap ex, and you can't do that, you know; grandma's jewels only last so long. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I liked Boston, I felt that it, CLIFFORD SCHORER: it's a good city. So, I mean, signature works: Saint Cecilia by Waterhouse, Rossetti's Proserpine, The Heart of the Rose by Burne-Jones. You're welcome. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. And that's reallythat was more of, you know, expanding the things that I could do. JUDITH RICHARDS: I imagine you wanted to preserve the goodwill of the name of Agnew's. JUDITH RICHARDS: because of these paintings? And then the real estate. [Laughs.] The party was also attended by Winslow Homer who was asked by Lady Blake to sketch the children. Do we think this is this?" LinkedIn is the worlds largest business network, helping professionals like Cliff Schorer discover inside connections to And I was still trying to buy, you know, what I could buy with a little bit of money in the stamps and coins world. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you're collecting Italianroughly Italian Baroque; that's around 1600 to 17how do you define it? CLIFFORD SCHORER: O-C-K-X, I believe. It's a very modern issue, because, historically, the American museum was created by private collections. So, JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] JUDITH RICHARDS: When those things happen, are youbuyers at auction aren't identified. [00:26:00] And not only the real deal, but it was the genesis of seven other copies that have all been variously considered either by van Dyck or byyou know, one is in Hampton Court; one is in the Hermitage. [Laughs.] And you know, we just spoke the other day. And by 13, I thought I had no business in school, which is why that sort of very constricted environment up in New Hampshire was tough for me. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I mean, I think if I limited myself to sort of, you know, the quality of the paint, I think, in a way, that would be unsatisfying to me. And he said, "Do you know what you bought?" Winslow Homer, Saco Bay, 1896 CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's a very different game. That's your real risk. The family believe it disappeared from Myrtle Grove after a series of robberies in the 1980s,[10] although Philip Mould notes that there was no crime reported. JUDITH RICHARDS: This is Judith Olch Richards interviewing Clifford J. Schorer III, on June 6, 2018, at the Archives of American Art offices in New York City. And, you know, because of that, it creates incredible attribution controversies, which are passionate arguments about. And we can coverbecause between the three of us going through a catalogue, we will isolate out the nine things worth sharing, and then we share those nine things, and then we comment on them, like attribution comments, back and forth. They don't knowthey didn't know that the specimen was named after him. Those days are long over. London? CLIFFORD SCHORER: And Konrad Bernheimer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, I mean, I love lending things, and I have a lot of things on loan, and I would like to do more of that. And so, you know, I hadI marched myself right downstairs, and I said, you know, "Come on, guys, that's notyou know that's not me." And I saw my name alone in a category, and I was very shocked, because I had never said, "You may do that." For example, I am a big fan of [Giulio Cesare] Procaccini. Are there light issues with the materials that you collect, and has that beenor had an impact on your home? I mean, it's those kinds of crazy, you knowI mean, you think about it. I eventually liquidated Best Products. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. But the problem is, New England is dry as a bone in the winter, so you have, you know, you have extremes, and I think the differenceif you kept a painting in England for 350 years, if you kept the painting in New England for 35 years, I bet it would have far more wear and tear in New England. You know, but in general, I mean, it's usuallyshe has a pretty good eye and I respect her. You know, it clouds my view of the artwork. That I was. JUDITH RICHARDS: Oh, so you owned it for many. During this period of time, the first decade of the century, were you coming across any preparatory drawings or other related material to these major works that you were studying and acquiring, or trying to acquire? CLIFFORD SCHORER: that's fair. Now, we have to be very responsive if that changes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: by the time I was 19, my business was very successful. [00:32:00]. If there are other such wonderful stories to tell, keep that in mind; we'll come back to it. She wrote the Crespi book. Antioch. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you think it's a mark of a good dealer that he will engage in that conversation without pressing you to find out who you are? I'm done. WebIhr Fachgeschft fr fussgerechtes Schuhwerk. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did Skinner know what was happening? CLIFFORD SCHORER: But I think that, in a wayyou know, buying the Cezanne, for example; that's not a picture I would buy for my own collection, but it's a wonderful picture to tell an important art historical story, that if Agnew's can tell it really well, then someone may respond and want the Cezanne, or someone may simply want the Cezanne because they want the Cezanne. And, you know, so I finally acquiesced. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And, you know, I visit English country homes now with Agnew's all the time, and I see these panel paintings that have been hanging in the same spot for 350 or 400 years, CLIFFORD SCHORER: And they're in good shape, because the English climate is very humid. The transcript and recording are open for research. So, you know, the oldest stuff there is all these dioramas and things, and I know that they're thinking about the future. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, there was a dollar figure, a level. I'm not, JUDITH RICHARDS: Is there a board that you're, CLIFFORD SCHORER: The structure is executive director is Anthony Crichton-Stuart, yeah. You have to let that go. I enjoyed Richmond. JUDITH RICHARDS: under the circumstances. JUDITH RICHARDS: In those yearsso we're talking about your teens and maybe early 20s. He's like, "Well, I can't tell you much, but there were some payment issues." [00:20:00], So I'm looking at it, I'm looking at it, and I'm reading the label, and the label says it's King Seuthes III of 740 BC or something. And in some cases, they still collect in those fields, or more likely, given that it's now 40 years later, many of them are either passed away or quite old now. Scotland CS], and they have a fabric manufactory, Bute Fabrics, and they make some of the most exquisite fabrics you ever saw. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I went to TEFAF. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is there any indication onit's a loan. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. And, of course, the idea they were in Egypt would add to that kind of, you know, sort of desert mystique of the whole thing. [4] In October 2013, the London Evening Standard reported that Shirley Rountree (Simon Murray's mother and a descendant of Sir Henry Blake) was suing Sotheby's for "return" of the painting. Steel Herman Miller partitions from the early '80s were still there. But the scholarship at the time said, "Wait a minute, that looks like a preparatory drawing for that painting," which then changed the attribution of the painting to a better attribution. And then send it away andI'm trying to remember who did the book. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, saw them, bought them; in one case, I'll give credit to someone else because it's his discovery of the lot, but I would see them and buy them and then, you know, we would basically spend time working on them. Was it something you had been looking for as an opportunity? CLIFFORD SCHORER: I tried toI made every installation decision. [00:16:00]. I didn't want sunlight. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. JUDITH RICHARDS: Having that photograph at hand to show you gives me the sense that they already knew that it would be mistaken. And there was one large mud sculpture of a horse on the floor in the lobby at Best Products. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was there a particular person who was your mentor? Do they focus entirely on Rubens or Rubens and his, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Rubens and his orbit, yeah. Washington, DC 20001, 300 Park Avenue South Suite 300 [00:38:00]. You know, it was wonderful. I think that they're, shall we say, more demanding of one's time, so you have to be available for them, and you have to work with them more individually. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you talked about what's important and what was significant art historically. CLIFFORD SCHORER: so, there weren't purpose-specific stamp and coin auctions in Boston, really. JUDITH RICHARDS: Can you remember key purchases you made in thosewhat you define as early years? JUDITH RICHARDS: Were you reading about the subject? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Total coincidence. Let's see. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you describe the place you live in Boston as not as having one work of art, right now. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. I do the Arts of Europe Advisory, but that's reallythey've asked me to join and do more, but because of the time commitment at Worcester, I really haven't been able to. I liked heavy curtains. JUDITH RICHARDS: Where does that take place? But, and I went right toI went right to the paintings. And that's great. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I don't want to slight anybody if they think they played that role in my life, but it was a very solitary pursuit. I said, "One of the greatest bronzes on the planet is in Plovdiv in the Communist Workers' Party headquarters in a plastic box." And I had to take it into various pieces. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They werethey had the English family connections to allow them to continue to trade when others were forced to do business with people that were, shall we say, less than scrupulous, and so that was a lucky break in a sense. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: You're serving as your own contractor? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I mean, did I read articles? Is this Crespi?" I resigned from the collections committee at the Worcester Art Museum. I mean, certainly, Thomas Leysen, who's a phenomenal collector in Antwerp. Maybe five, six. [11] According to Mr. Murray, his family didn't know that the painting was stolen until it was put up for auction at Sotheby's. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So when I bought my examplethe triceratopsthere was an editorial in the New York Times about my piece, saying that some rich person's going to hide it away in their castle. JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: I had made a resume. I can't play anymore. JUDITH RICHARDS: The competitors are in equal situations? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, yeah. [1] CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, for me, personally, I think that, obviously, I feel much happier when something is on public view, and there's somebody telling someone something about it. And I mean, he didn't speakI don't think there were too many words spoken about much. I especially, of course, remember the Egyptian things. JUDITH RICHARDS: But timewise, was that the beginning of your starting to explore that area? JUDITH RICHARDS: So do you live with art in London? But, you know, the other trip that really comes to mind recentlyand, again, it's in a totally unrelated field. I was walking through the room, and they were giving this lecture, so I sat for the lecture, of course. And I learned to say the most rudimentary things. So we both get on planes, and he goes and finds pictures in Berlin, here, there, and everywhere, and we pull together. JUDITH RICHARDS: So now you've kind of put collecting on the back burner. And we've obviously done a lot of work on our Pre-Raphaelite exhibition, which was kind of a protractedwe did, basically, a two-year Pre-Raphaelite fiesta, with lots of publications. JUDITH RICHARDS: Were therewas it a big decision for you to become involved on that level with. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Sure. But I wouldin France and Europe, I generallynobody had the money to just go wander around. Does it happen that a painting and a drawing will happen to hit the market at the same time? So you wouldyou would certainly read all of those. I mean, I'm trying to think. Just feeling and looking at the objects, and. I bought a cash-flow business, that I don't need to babysit. I mean, was there a kind of sense that you have when you look back that there was a certain period of time when you were doing a lot of research and reading? So, yes. So what I had done was I worked for Gillette for a while. JUDITH RICHARDS: You had no idea when you went to Plovdiv that there would be such a. And then when they referred you to something else that was interesting, I would go look at that. This interview is part of the Archives of American Art Oral History Program, started in 1958 to document the history of the visual arts in the United States, primarily through interviews with artists, historians, dealers, critics and administrators. And I left and I started the company. So for the average buyer, philosophically thinking about that, they think, Okay, well, I'm going to sell this, and I'm not going to pay a commission. CLIFFORD SCHORER: One hopes. The Daniele Crespi, which was a very early Daniele Crespi that Otto Naumann, the dealer in New York, had purchased in 1994 as Lombard School. JUDITH RICHARDS: Over many years? So [00:48:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: But you didn't havethat were well-managed, and you didn't have to, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well-managed, I have two dinners per year with the management team and.

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